Joker Origin Story Rant

So August has been a crazy month for me. I honestly haven't gotten around to watching too many movies. I've been watching some TV and miniseries when I can, but I've been gaming more. I'm hoping to do a review on Uncharted 1 and 2 once I finish both of them. But we are coming up on the end of August and I honestly don't have much to show for it on this blog. I wanted to pad that slim number of posts a little by giving my thoughts on some recent news that I heard yesterday/this morning.

Apparently, DC announced that they are starting production on a new film that will come out oin a few years. And this story has a lot of layers to it that I want to discuss but I'm going to lay it all out at once and give my thoughts on each part individually. This new film that DC is puting out will be a Joker origin film, they will cast a new actor to play The Joker, and it will not be a part of the DCEU. If you follow me regularly on the Movie Symposium, you know that I love my DC films. I want the DCEU to succeed probably more than any set of movies that I have seen in a while and that is why I have high hopes for films like Justice League, and the superheroes that are in that same universe. So when I hear news like this, I get a little concerned. So let's break this down piece by piece.

1. A Joker Origin Story

A Joker origin story does not appeal to me. I'm not saying I wouldn't go and see that movie, especially if I saw a good trailer. Just on face value though, I don't have any interest whatsoever in an origin story on the clown prince of crime.

But further more with that, I don't feel like he's a character that really needs an origin story.

If you know me, you'll know that I don't read comic books that often. I know stories but I haven't read them. I do know that in The Killing Joke, there is a little bit of an origin story to The Joker and why he is the way he is. From what I understand of that story though is that the story is left vague and it might be true or it might not be.

And I think I like that a lot more from a character like the Joker. He is an agent of chaos. He is Batman's opposite. He is such an iconic villain that I can't help but feel like they're creating a really problematic situation for themselves by y doing this. I always go back to the Star Wars Prequels where they tried to make an origin story for one of the most iconic villains of all time in Darth Vader and the result was something that Star Wars is, in a way, still recovering from.

But there's also the fact that the Joker is shrouded in so much mystery that it's almost counter productive to do an origin story for the Joker because part of his charm is the mystery of how he got to that point.

Villains are tricky. Some villains, it works to give them a backstory, give them context. You look at all the MCU TV series on Netflix, most of my favorite episodes of those TV shows like Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, are the episodes where they delve into the backstory of the villain and give us some context. And again, it all depends. Could a Joker origin story work? Maybe, I don't know. I'm not the guy with the brilliant idea to write that.

What I do know is that if you're going off of the past, the Joker has been better when his backstory is vague.

I don't think it's totally fair to always point to Heath Ledger's Joker and compare. At a certain point we need to drop that standard and accept something new. But while we're doing that, I point to the backstory of the Joker in that film. The fact that it was kept vague added to how scary this guy was. There are also comics that point towards a vague origin story and I think it makes the character even more intriguing when you don't know how he ended up the way he did.

Could it be done? Maybe. The movie is going to be produced by Martin Scorsese and directed by the guys who did The Hangover and War Dogs. I wasn't a huge fan of The Hangover films and I haven't seen War Dogs. Overall, it's not a very reassuring pair but Scorsese I guess is the thing that is bringing people over to the side of this Joker film. I'm still skeptical but hey, crazier things have happened.

2. They will cast a new Actor. 

Poor Jared Leto...

I mean I don't feel incredibly bad for him because he is a grown ass man, he'll find work, he still has millions and millions more dollars than I do, and he kind of gives off the pretentious vibe, especially in his "preparation" for the role.

But even still, I feel like everyone was unfairly comparing him to Heath Ledger and the reality is, we didn't really even see that much of him. The Joker was barely in Suicide Squad and I still can't really say whether or not he was bad or not because I barely saw him in that film. I can't say I was totally impressed, but I can't say it was all bad.

But a lot of people are not nearly as forgiving as I am and they had a lot of bad things to say about his interpretation of the Joker. So much that it is really questionable if Leto is even interested in returning as The Joker for another film.

And with this news, it doesn't really sound like DC is really interested in pursuing future films with Leto's Joker. I would like to see them give him another shot but regardless, this does give another actor the opportunity to do something different with the character and create a new interpretation.

Every actor who has taken on the role, including the guys who have voiced him in the animated interpretations have done something different with the role. I think each one has an interesting take and while there are certain interpretations that I liked over the other ones, I'm not totally sure we need another at this moment.

Again it goes back to the idea that I really feel the need to get an origin story or even really a standalone film starring the Joker. This means that there is going to be a whole new casting rumor mill that goes along with this character and while I always love those, I just think we're focusing on recasting a character who we didn't really give an opportunity to really show us what he could do.

But depending on what the true implications of my last point are, it might not even matter because any interpretation, especially Leto's could just be thrown out the window for a Joker in a totally different universe.

3. It's not going to be set in the DCEU.

This is the part that worries me the most. Like I said, if they did a standalone Joker film, or even an origin story, depending on the trailer and the news they had behind it, I could eventually go and see it. I think I've written before, and if I haven't I've definitely thought of it, that if they really weren't impressed with Leto's interpretation, they could just recast the role. Not a very difficult thing and not unprecedented.

The part that really throws me off about this story is that this Joker origin movie is going to not be set in the DCEU and be it's own standalone film...

Now this line of thought has been interrupted a little bit with very recent news that Jared Leto is returning for some of the other films coming out like Gotham City Sirens and Suicide Squad 2. On top of that there are talks that there is going to be a Joker and Harley Quinn movie starring Leto and Margot Robbie.

But even as it stands, it is still very confusing.

The DCEU has had a little bit of a rocky start. I have thoroughly enjoyed all the films that have come out and while I will defend all the DC films that came out in 2016, I know that they were not as good as they could be. Splitting the efforts and having two Jokers is just confusing and doesn't allow for all the creative juices to go into one character, it has to be split between two.

And this isn't the only character that is going to be separate from the cinematic universe being set up by DC.

Apparently the new Batman film coming out simply entitled, The Batman, is rumored to be separate from the DC cinematic universe as well. Now this one isn't as confirmed as the Joker news, Matt Reeves, the director just said it wouldn't be apart of the cinematic universe. Now that could mean that it's not going to be totally connected to the cinematic universe being built but it's still in the same world that has been set up. But it could also be setting up this alternative look at the Batman that isn't Ben Affleck. And I'm not gonna lie, I don't know why they're doing this.

Again, why would you split your creative energy into potentially two cinematic universe when you could simply just make a Batman film set apart from the events of Justice League. I mean Wonder Woman did it and it's not much of a stretch for Ben Affleck's Batman to have other stuff he needed to take care of in Gotham or in Arkham Asylum that doesn't connect to forming The Justice League. I get that mistakes were made in Batman v Superman, but I'm really concerned if they feel they have to create a totally different universe to tell the stories they want to tell.

Now, is there potential here? Yes.

Forgive the hokey picture, but it does show that there are multiple earths and different versions of Batman. In theory, this could open up a totally new world where things are just a tad different in one world and we have multiple Jokers, multiple Batman's and multiple versions of other characters. It's not that strange of an idea. While it doesn't connect to the cinematic universe being set up right now, there could be a new cinematic universe that would eventually lead to a crisis on infinite earths or Injustice scenario down the road. I think that if that were the case it would be a very big undertaking and it would require many movies as opposed to DC's usually MO where they just do one or two films and then blow everything up.  But hey, this could end up being a good thing.

I've always been a big fan of John Campea. He has done a couple of videos surrounding this news and he is very excited and optimistic about this change, almost to a fault. Here's the link to his video. He does bring up a good point that this is a pretty ballsy move for DC in that they are allowing for directors and writers to not be constrained by the cinematic universe and write their own adventures and stories in their own styles and methods. I can't argue with the fact that this opens up a lot of opportunities to do some fun films with little to no restrictions in the style and tone directors want to go with the superhero films.

The only criticism I have with that is that I would be much more open to that idea if I felt that DC had a solid grip on their cinematic universe that they could do these spin-offs without hurting the brand they've created and the universe they've set up. I don't think it's strong enough to set itself apart from the standalone films that apparently aren't going to have anything to do with that universe and I think are just going to detract from that world.

And hey listen, if DC doesn't have faith in their cinematic universe and they want to do something different, just do it! Make the decision that the cinematic universe isn't working and you want to focus on standalone films that may or may not connect. It's worked before, DC has had really great movies in the past that have somewhat connected but never had the Marvel-like crossovers we see so often today.

I just think at this point and time, it would be wiser to pick one or the other and just go with it. Where we stand right now, we're going to get people who like one version of the Joker above the other. We're going to get people who like Ben Affleck more than the new Batman they will for sure cast to do The Batman (hopefully Richard Armitage).

I just think that DC is not at a stable enough point to pull of this very ambitious move and they don't have the track record to fill me with confidence that they're going to stick that landing.

Overall, the choice worries me. Not saying it's the worst choice, but I don't think it's the right one. I'm worried that it's either a soft approach to bowing out of the cinematic universe they're creating, or it's an early attempt to create a multiple world to which I have to say, A) why start with The Joker? and B) this is a very long term risky goal just in order to get two Justice Leagues on screen by 2021.

But what do you think? Do you like the idea of a Joker Origin Story, without Leto, and outside of the cinematic universe already set up? Comment and Discuss below! You can also send me your thoughts on Twitter @MovieSymposium as well as send me your requests for films I should review or talk about in the future. If you follow me on Twitter you can get updates on future movie news and reviews coming out of this blog.

I'll leave you with this. This video came out last year and logs the different looks and interpretations on The Clown Prince of Crime. It's actually a pretty interesting walk through history. Enjoy!