MCU Phase 5: The Greatest Hypothetical Phase (Part 2)

So some of the films I'll be talking about in this post are not officially in phase 5. I imagine that Marvel is really only worried about Phase 4 at the moment so Phase 5 is really only hypothetical with only a few speculative release dates that are bound to change, especially with how fluid the release dates of Phase 4 are already.

I like to imagine Fiege sitting in his basement with a corkboard, just beautiful mind-ing all the new properties like X-men, Fantastic Four, Deadpool, while also incorporating the classic sequels that people are looking forward to like Guardians of the Galaxy and Black Panther, as well as refining story pitches for Captain Marvel 2 to make sure its better than the first one, all while looking for gaps and opportunities to introduce vampires into all of it... because Blade.

I'll talk about some of the projects that are classified as "in development" on Wikipedia, namely Black Panther 2 and Captain Marvel 2. Then I'll dive into the meat of the MCU's future which is almost entirely hypothetical at the moment but will no doubt become clearer as I would hope they will be built up to in Phase 4.

The Knowns

These two sequels could not be any more different. Despite some odd backlash to Black Panther recently, Black Panther was a wild success in 2018 and even earned a Best Picture nom.

Captain Marvel on the other hand could be described at best as a generic Marvel film and at worst is pretty low on a lot of people's lists ranking the MCU films.

Thinking about it now, I really haven't revisited either of these movies since 2018 and maybe that's in the cards soon since they're both on Disney Plus. But I think the thing that makes these movies interesting from a story perspective is that they both have the prospects of leading a future team up movie whenever the conversation of the next Avengers movie shows up on Fiege's cork board.

Needless to say, I don't envy that man.

Black Panther 2 already has Ryan Coogler back and Captain Marvel is looking for a female director which I'm all for as long as she's good. I don't have a whole lot of nuanced thoughts on this besides the prospect of these characters leading the Avengers one day. Who knows if they'll go that route, but it's interesting to me. 

The Hypotheticals

I'm referring to the formerly Fox properties as hypotheticals, not because I don't think they'll show up, but because it's totally speculative on how or when they'll show up. Have mutants always been there? Are they from a separate universe that were able to cross over after the snap or the time travel shenanigans from Endgame? How is Rated-R Deadpool going to appear in a PG-13 MCU films? All questions we don't know.

I'm going to break this down into the different elements that Kevin Fiege gets the fun job of incorporating into the existing universe. Starting with the Fantastic Four.

Fantastic Four

Both X-men and Fantastic Four have their own challenges. Where were these characters during the events of the previous movies? Is the Multiverse involved. And more succinctly to the Fantastic Four,

how do you make a movie for a team that has had notoriously bad movies. Like I know Fox wasn't always great at their movies, but it says something that they took 4 varying levels of efforted swings at this team and failed pretty much every time.

And the thing that kind of sucks is that I doubt we're really going to get anything really special with the Fantastic Four. I think with any other studio taking on a challenge like this, they'd try to do something really unique, especially since both the comical and dark versions failed. But the reality is, they're just going to Marvel-ize it and it's going to feel like every other movie to come out of the MCU. It might be entertaining, but if I'm exec, the safest choice with such a tricky property is to give it to someone like Peyton Reed, who while not a bad director at all, knows the Marvel formula and can knock out a pretty generic Marvel film while tricking us into thinking its ground breaking.

The other aspect is the casting and I don't really know what to think about this because a lot of it is fan casting that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

A lot of people are speculating that they're going to cast John Krasinski and Emily Blunt as Mr. Fantastic and Sue Storm.

Look, I want these two to be in the MCU just like everyone else. I really thought they were going to go with Emily Blunt for Captain Marvel and honestly I'm a little disappointed they didn't. Not because Brie Larson is bad (cause she's not everyone!) but because Blunt is so good. And while Marvel is totally happy with Chris Evans as Captain America, I think apart of them is kicking themselves that they couldn't lay claim to Krasinski early because now his offer price is a lot higher than it would have been originally.

But I just don't see those two in those particular roles. Do I think they're talented and they could change my mind? Yes. But I akin it to the people in 2014 who were hoping for Bryan Cranston to play Lex Luthor, not because he was a good actor, but because he had played a bald cunning bad guy in Breaking Bad. Just because Krasinski and Blunt are married in real life and have played a married couple in A Quiet Place (well I might add), does not mean that they should be these characters.

I have no authority or backing to say that Marvel is going with this casting and I actually think they won't. However, I would not be surprised at all if they did for the sole fact of its a popular choice with actors who are hot right now. It's also worth mentioning that if A Quiet Place 2 is good, they might consider Krasinski for director but that also seems odd because while I love A Quiet Place, its nowhere near a Marvel movie.

So again, good luck Kevin Fiege with that.

Deadpool

Just getting it out of the way now. Adding Deadpool to the MCU is going to be VERY VERY easy.

I'm of the belief that Endgame's only failure was that it didn't have the end credit scene be Deadpool sitting in an empty theater clapping like Shia Labeouf. He didn't need to say anything just a 15 second clip of Deadpool doing this...

If I recall correctly, the deal had already gone through at that point and it would have been very easy to add (he says with no real experience in how movies are distributed).

But all Marvel needs to do is include Deadpool in an end credit scene somewhere in Phase 4. I can't say what movie it should be but again, it doesn't have to be anything big. He could be in the background of the real end credit scene just waving and putting up a sign saying, "Hey I'm here".

 The important thing is that I don't want Deadpool teaming up with anybody other than possibly Spider-man and not even a full movie. I want Deadpool to exist in his own little pocket universe of the MCU where his movies are Rated R and the times that he's incorporated, he's very aware that he's in a PG-13 MCU film.

I have a lot of faith in Ryan Reynolds and I really hope the higher ups at Marvel and Disney do as well to let him do his own thing. The scenes (and I emphasize scenes) that he does a cross over in Marvel films should be totally directed by Reynolds and his team to get the most impact.

In short, Deadpool should be very easy as long as his crossover stuff is limited and his solo films are rated R.

X-men is a little bit of a different beast.

X-men

I'm on record as saying that the Fox X-men movies are better than people are giving them credit for. Yes, Dark Phoenix and Apocalypse were bad films, but even up until the end, there were still talented people on that team putting out movies like Deadpool 2 and Logan. Put on top of that that the good X-men movies had a feel that I think people might start feeling nostalgia for as eventually they start re-watching them and get nervous about how Marvel is going to incorporate a team that is so expansive it's impossible to give them the time and effort that even Fox struggled with. If you thought Fox never gave justice to your favorite X-men like Bishop or Gambit, what makes you think that adding them to a slate that includes giving Ant-man another solo film eventually is going to give them justice?

I'm not sad that I'll eventually get to see Wolverine with the Avengers. I am sad that at least at Fox we had the chance of a Gambit movie, for better or worse. I was never looking forward to the Channing Tatum Gambit movie but I liked the possibility of it. Say what you will about Sony right now, at least they have the opportunity to make crappy Morbius movies in the hope they can learn from their mistakes and make good Craven movies. Maybe I'm too hopeful, but Logan would never have happened if the X-men had been apart of the MCU from the get go.

The fun thing about X-men not coming out is that we have probably years to speculate on who they're going to cast and I find that immensely fun even when I'm incredibly wrong.

I've lost the enthusiasm to do fan casting because it ultimately seems pointless to me when I'm almost always wrong, but I would never crap on the entertainment it brings other people and in turn brings me to see cool speculative fan posters like this. It also brings up the fact that nobody has outright said that the old cast isn't coming back. I think it's highly unlikely, but if I'm Marvel and I know that some people did like James McEvoy as Professor X, there is at least a conversation to be had on whether or not you bring him back, if not for a minor role while you focus on new mutants to distinguish the new franchise.

It's also fun to think about how and when to expect the X-men to appear in the MCU. I think they'll start sprinkling in mentions of mutants in Phase 4 with potential cameos by mutants. Spider-man 3, Doctor Strange, and Thor Love and Thunder are all in pre-production so it wouldn't be outlandish for Marvel to come to those directors and say, I need you to incorporate this character to set up for the X-men. Maybe Bolivar Trask shows up in Spider-man 3, or Mister Sinister has a small role in Thor Love and Thunder, or someone else that only fans of the property would get but that confirms on screen that this is the same universe now.

Eventually once you get really deep into the hypotheticals, you start thinking of crossovers and versus movies once those come back into fashion. There was a really good Screen Junkies video when X-men was acquired by Fox on the possible ideological differences between a group like the Avengers and the X-men and why a versus movie could be really interesting.

The video (link right here) talks about the thematic differences between the franchises. The theme I find more intriguing is that the Marvel films have mainly held the theme of limiting power to a select few individuals and the fear of power falling into the wrong hands through power given to the right hands. On the other hand, not only is that power in the hands of a many individuals like the mutants, the whole theme of the X-men has been to peacefully combat institutions that discriminate against mutants. The very institutions that the Avengers have spent the majority of their films working to uphold.

The Screenjunkies video does a much better job at describing that philosophical and thematic conflict, but I think their analysis is a stepping stone to a really interesting conflict. Do I have a lot of confidence that MCU movies will go that deep? I'm not sure.

I think the addition of the X-men has to be done with care. While Fantastic Four will likely be Marvel-ized just due to the fact that it's not as popular of a property, X-men is a property that is too big not to address these very interesting questions with. I don't think it's going to be addressed with the thoughtful analysis that Screenjunkies did, but it'd be a wasted opportunity to just say, Mutants have been here all along and the Avengers are just cool with it.

The individual characters they bring in are also important. While I think Professor X and Magneto have been used to death, they really do represent the ideological and interesting overarching ideas of the X-men. I could see them being seen as too powerful to start off with, but again, it just seems like an opportunity too good to waste.

I think it's a good idea that Fiege isn't rushing into incorporating the X-men. It's even questionable that when/if New Mutants ever comes out if it will even connect to the MCU. That's why I didn't include it in my Phase 4 rant, because it is not even clear if its going to happen at this point.

Overall, I'm excited for the X-men but want Fiege to take as much time as he needs, even if it means doing a filler phase.

I should note that I'm excited for a lot of the movies in Phase 4 and I like the prospect of things in the MCU being wildly different by the end of Phase 4. But I am looking at it realistically that the movies coming out are largely going to be transition films, introducing new heroes, ferrying out old ones, and setting up for this hypothetical phase with all the properties that we're really waiting for.

The Others and In Betweens

This rant is going quite long and making me think it was a good idea to split this up in the first place. But I put this as the Others and in betweeners because there is for sure going to be a Guardians of the Galaxy 3. We just have no idea when it's going to happen.

Blade is probably going to happen, we just have no idea when its going to happen.

But its also the in betweeners because its not totally clear where these movies are going to fit in the grand scheme of things.

The silver lining for fans of Guardians of the Galaxy is that there is speculation that the Guardians will likely have a role in Thor Love and Thunder (seriously that movie is going to be the powerhouse of Phase 4 to make you forget that it's a filler phase) and we're going to get our Guardians fix while not having an actual sequel for the foreseeable future. It's kind of what happens when Disney decides to play games with a director for silly reasons and he ends up getting a new girlfriend in DC while you stage a break up. He'll be back, there's no doubt of that, but Marvel will have some egg on their face if The Suicide Squad ends up being really good and Marvel is still waiting on their plucky gang of rogues tentpole movie.

And then there's Blade.

Look, I get why you announce Blade. If you look back at the news that came out of that Phase 4 Comic-con announcement, it was a lot of fluff to disguise the fact that you're still working on how to incorporate the X-men along with a real direction after Endgame. I mentioned in the last post that I don't blame Fiege for not having a super clear path for the next big Thanos-like conflict. Thanos was the culmination of 10 years and if you think Fiege can do in a year what took 10 years, I'd invite you to watch Phase 1 and 2 and tell me that they knew exactly where they were going.

The Blade announcement was like an Easter Egg. It's not totally related but it got people excited. And if you have the chance to grab Mahershala Ali for anything, you grab him early because his price tag is only going up.

But looking at the slate moving forward, can you honestly say where Blade is going to fit in this universe?

The only inkling I have is that he could show up in a post-credit scene in Morbius. But that's a pretty weak connection considering that its a Sony property that nobody is excited for. I mean it's Jared freaking Leto! Even if Blade shows up in the post-credit scene of Morbius, if Morbius is bad, I don't think that fares very well to get people pumped about Blade. The introduction of Vampires just seems weird. Not impossible. I will always point back to Guardians of the Galaxy and a time when we thought that was weird too. But Blade to me is just a huge question mark right now. While I know people are excited about it, Vampires just seem like a step back from intergalactic cosmic multiversing that the MCU is headed down.

Also Ant-man 3...

I don't know one single person who is excited for Ant-man 3. I like those movies in the moment and I bet if I put Ant-man 1 or 2 on right now, I'd probably have a fun time with it. But honestly the only thing that is going to be appeal with an Ant-man 3 is if they introduce the Fantastic 4 in that film.

And that's possible. Like I said, they're probably going to Marvel-ize that team and Peyton Reed seems like a competent enough person to make a silly concept like The Fantastic Four accessible for the average audience. This of course is all off unconfirmed speculation, but it seems likely because I don't see Ant-man 3 being appealing without some kind of draw, like the introduction of a new property into the MCU bloodstream.

The theme among these three films is that they just feel out of place right now. There are certain avenues that could make them logical, but I imagine they're pretty low on Fiege's conspiracy cork board because there are bigger and better things to do.

To recap, Captain Marvel and Black Panther are near the top of the list because they're already in production and have the potential to be some of the centerfolds for the MCU going forward. The Fox properties are the 300 meter targets because I know they want to get them right. And the rest is ancillary due to a multitude of circumstances, whether it be an unavailable story head (James Gunn), a question mark of a story aspect like Blade, or a low turnout hero like Ant-man that at the end of the day is more likely a vehicle for more important things.

I have no idea how the future of the MCU is going to be, but I think Phase 5 (and beyond) is going to be the more formative phase of the MCU whereas Phase 4 will be more transitional. And like I mentioned in my Phase 4 rant, it's all together possible that the Phase 5 they have in mind could be totally different at the end of the phase 4. It might be counting our eggs before they hatch to do a post like this, but let's be real, what else is there to do right now?

The fun part about this is that I get to hear some of your thoughts. How will the X-men be incorporated into the MCU? Is there any other way that Blade can be incorporated other than Morbius? Who do you want to play the Fantastic four? Comment and Discuss below! You can also send me your thoughts on Twitter @MovieSymposium as well as send me your requests for films and topics I should discuss in the future. If you follow me on Twitter, you can get updates on future movie news and reviews coming out of this blog.

Thanks for reading!