I'm deciding to give my thoughts on the news that James Gunn is probably going to write and potentially direct Suicide Squad 2 not only because it's an interesting development for a movie that I had absolutely no interest in, but I think it's a good launch pad for talking about the future of the DC cinematic universe that I've wanted to talk about for a year now. I originally wanted to write a follow up to my spoilers review of Justice League ranting about the direction of the DCEU and where it could go from Justice League, but like I mentioned in that review, that's incredibly difficult in a world where it's unclear if it's even going to continue.
A lot has changed though and while I'm still very unsure on where this DC cinematic universe is going, there have been some developments that have changed my outlook completely and changed what films I'm actually looking forward to, and where DC could go.
But first and foremost, I want to talk about James Gunn.
I think my perception of Gunn has been shaped by a bias I have for DC over Marvel. When the first Suicide Squad came out, I defended it way more than I should have. I believed that Suicide Squad was judged unfairly while hitting a lot of the same notes that Gunn and his film were widely praised for while Suicide Squad was widely mocked.
I stand by some of those thoughts still and think the Guardians of the Galaxy films are a tad overrated, but in comparison, Guardians has its flaws but maintains its charm, while Suicide Squad's flaws only seem to get worse every time I watch it.
The main point though is that I don't think I've been fair to Gunn. I think he's only shown his talent for writing and directly and on top of that only seems to be a solid human being who has seen the errors in previous mindsets and comments he's made in the past.
I think it was a mistake for Disney to drop Gunn and not emphasis the importance of redemption which I think Gunn has really tried to do. I've seen the tweets he wrote and they're disgusting. Unequivocally, I think that they were unacceptable. But the Gunn of today isn't the Gunn who made those comments. He didn't pretend it didn't happen, he doesn't blame anybody but himself, and he's worked to be a better person. I agree that we shouldn't accept comments like that, but I also think we should be encouraging people to take steps like the ones Gunn has taken and I think Disney made a mistake.
So I was pleasantly surprised on the level of savage intelligence on the part of Warner Brothers to snatch up Gunn to potentially take the helm on a property that seems right up his alley.
But the more I hear about it, the more I become excited for a movie that before this news I couldn't have cared less about. I didn't really need a Suicide Squad 2 and I saw it as a distraction from other films that could make the DC cinematic universe watchable. But not only is Gunn being brought on but they've stated that it'll seem more like a remake rather than a direct sequel actually makes me really excited for the film.
I think Gunn will probably utilized what worked for the previous film like Margot Robbie and Will Smith, but I could see him delving into the material and bringing up a rich, more developed cast of characters to make this movie actually a lot of fun.
Now, my excitement and support for this movie comes with a couple of caveats.
1. I do not want Suicide Squad 2 to just be Guardians of the Galaxy but with DC characters. While the two teams are similar, they are not the same. If Gunn comes out with a film that just feels like the same thing, I'm going to be disappointed because I don't want the DC universe to be Marvelized. I want this universe to be different and fun, but not the campy Marvel version of the DC universe that we got at the end of Justice League.
2. I want DC and Warner Brothers to let Gunn make the movie he wants to and get the hell out of his way. David Ayer is a good director, but Suicide Squad was not the movie he made. If Gunn wants to make Joker the villain, make him the GD villain. Learn from your mistakes DC, you have a great opportunity here, don't waste it.
Honorary #3 - Put Dave Bautista in it. This is not necessary and I'm not even sure it's possible, but he said today that he would want to sign up for this movie and it would be an extra savage move... I'm thinking King Shark...
But the fact that I'm suddenly actually excited and care about the results of Suicide Squad 2 indicates the state the DC cinematic universe has really been for recently. I hope I've indicated that this is a good move, and I will talk about some other good things that DC has been doing with this change in direction, but this rant will also point out the parts that have drastically changed my outlook on this cinematic universe and where I hope they make changes.
But the good things first.
1. DC seems confident about the movies that are unavoidably in the pipeline
Do Aquaman and Shazam look like they're going to be the best superhero movies of the year? Absolutely not. I'll talk about this later, but I'm about 50/50 if either one of those movies are going to be at all good. But for the time being, DC seems like they're confident in them. This might change when it comes closer to their release, but the fact that I haven't heard about James Wan being handcuffed by studio interference, or Shazam going through massive re-shoots (yet) is encouraging.
And I think everyone has an uncharacteristic blind faith that the Wonder Woman sequel is going to be good so I'm not worried about that.
I'll talk about the approach DC has been taking and how they've been very quiet about the exact direction they're taking their franchise, but for the time being they're putting their money behind Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman when it comes to the established universe. I remain skeptical of any movie that was announced prior to, or even after Justice League, even Suicide Squad 2, but DC doesn't seem as frantic as they used to be. At least not totally, and that feeds into the second positive.
I'll talk about the approach DC has been taking and how they've been very quiet about the exact direction they're taking their franchise, but for the time being they're putting their money behind Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman when it comes to the established universe. I remain skeptical of any movie that was announced prior to, or even after Justice League, even Suicide Squad 2, but DC doesn't seem as frantic as they used to be. At least not totally, and that feeds into the second positive.
2. It doesn't feel like DC is just trying to chase Marvel's tail anymore
The most recent news these days being the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie and this news about James Gunn, at least gives the perception that they are interested in making good movies. The news report about Gunn being hired is that he seems to have the reigns with Suicide Squad, to use whatever characters he wants, and will take the movie in the direction it needs to go in order to be a good movie, not a franchise installment... for now...
Just by reputation, Joaquin Phoenix doesn't seem to take on projects that he doesn't feel will expand his career, and it's been reported that he's been opposed to franchise contracts in the past so I can only hope that they're going to leave it all on the court with this movie and make the best film they can.
And what's more, this movie seems to be breaking ground on something totally new.
3. Some of it feels like they're expanding their horizons and trying something that has never been done before.
The screen test from this movie looks good, all the footage shows a movie that could end up being really solid, and the best part is, if it all works, you will probably start seeing the doors opening for other characters to get this one off treatment and take a unique approach to the super hero world.
Now, one offs or unrelated to a larger franchise superhero films are not new, but they are by no means trendy right now. This Joker movie could break DC from this expectation of building a larger universe and just focus on good movies and interesting stories and if that's the case, I'd really be interested in that...
Now... all of this is under the assumption that these upcoming movies are going to be good, and that segues great into how my view of this movie universe has really turned negative. I used to be a huge DC fan, defending these movies to the death and assuring my friends that they're leading up to something. The reality is these days, I'm really not that sure and here are some reasons why.
The screen test from this movie looks good, all the footage shows a movie that could end up being really solid, and the best part is, if it all works, you will probably start seeing the doors opening for other characters to get this one off treatment and take a unique approach to the super hero world.
Now, one offs or unrelated to a larger franchise superhero films are not new, but they are by no means trendy right now. This Joker movie could break DC from this expectation of building a larger universe and just focus on good movies and interesting stories and if that's the case, I'd really be interested in that...
Now... all of this is under the assumption that these upcoming movies are going to be good, and that segues great into how my view of this movie universe has really turned negative. I used to be a huge DC fan, defending these movies to the death and assuring my friends that they're leading up to something. The reality is these days, I'm really not that sure and here are some reasons why.
Negatives
1. All of this is speculation
While the trailers for Aquaman and Shazam have been fun, there is nothing about those trailers that assures me that those movies are going to be good. They look fun, I'm going to see them, but I've seen good trailers before that led to bad movies, and even if these trailers were really good (which they're not, they're okay), I would still be skeptical because of the track record DC has had in the past.
DC is in a really tough position because I really think that they needed Justice League to propel them forward into two movies that fans want to see, but needed a little bit more enthusiasm for. I only know a handful of people who love Aquaman or Shazam so much that they would wait outside at midnight to see that movie opening day (I know that barely happens these days but I'm trying to make a point). Instead of these movies riding off a wave of Justice League, they have to get the hype going again for a franchise that has been struggling.
Right now, the only movie that has warranted true excitement and no skepticism has been Wonder Woman 2. That's because Patty Jenkins provided evidence on why we should be excited for all of this.
The truth is, we dont' know if Jame's Gunn's Suicide Squad is going to be good. It could be horrible. Even this Joker movie kind of smells of DC not really listening to the needs to fans and just doing what they think is profitable. As many screen tests and cool production videos you can find for this Joker movie, this is still a movie that nobody asked for and I'm still skeptical on. I can be intrigued, but it has given me no real reason to believe that it is going to be good. The truth is, I'm not going to be optimistic DC future until I watch both Aquaman and Shazam and conclude that they are good and on the right track.
DC has been very good in the past about gas lighting us into believing that things are okay but the truth is, the skepticism of DC's movies goes right back to square one if Aquaman is not a good movie.
While the trailers for Aquaman and Shazam have been fun, there is nothing about those trailers that assures me that those movies are going to be good. They look fun, I'm going to see them, but I've seen good trailers before that led to bad movies, and even if these trailers were really good (which they're not, they're okay), I would still be skeptical because of the track record DC has had in the past.
Right now, the only movie that has warranted true excitement and no skepticism has been Wonder Woman 2. That's because Patty Jenkins provided evidence on why we should be excited for all of this.
The truth is, we dont' know if Jame's Gunn's Suicide Squad is going to be good. It could be horrible. Even this Joker movie kind of smells of DC not really listening to the needs to fans and just doing what they think is profitable. As many screen tests and cool production videos you can find for this Joker movie, this is still a movie that nobody asked for and I'm still skeptical on. I can be intrigued, but it has given me no real reason to believe that it is going to be good. The truth is, I'm not going to be optimistic DC future until I watch both Aquaman and Shazam and conclude that they are good and on the right track.
DC has been very good in the past about gas lighting us into believing that things are okay but the truth is, the skepticism of DC's movies goes right back to square one if Aquaman is not a good movie.
2. While they don't seem like they're chasing Marvel's tail, the franchise seems very aimless at the moment.
So this point, I have to give DC some credit because in the case that they want to reboot the franchise if they were so disappointed with Justice League, they couldn't come out right and say that without undermining the productions they have already invested money into. Aquaman was pretty much in the can when Justice League premiered, Shazam was just about to start. And then there's the problem of Wonder Woman being such a fan favorite and it would be like leaving money on the table if they didn't let Patty Jenkins do another sequel.
But whether or not they're rebooting or not, the whole cinematic universe seems aimless. There are like 3-5 Joker movies coming out and while they've trashed some of the random movie ideas that never really had any traction to begin with (Batgirl), there doesn't seem to be a deliberate direction with the franchise anywhere in sight. All I see is the studio continuing to throw everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, it just they've seen what sticks but it doesn't really have the connective tissue that is expected of a large franchise like this. And none of those ideas that have "stuck" don't seem to be connected to what was alluded to in previous movies.
Remember when Steppenwolf alluded to Darkseid? Remember Batman's weird nightmare set in an alternative universe where Superman is evil? Remember when Lex Luthor met with Deathstroke and said they should make a "league of our own" leading to what I can only assume was supposed to be a remake of the Gina Davis and Tom Hanks vehicle about a female baseball team but this time with the villains?
None of those ideas seem to be anywhere in production and it makes you just wonder what the point of the last few movies have been if we're just going to focus on a Suicide Squad that might be a soft reboot with totally new characters.
It's clear that DC thought that what they were working with wasn't working and that's why there is serious doubt that we'll see any of those seeds followed through with in any future movie, and while it's sometimes good to not know where a franchise is going, DC just doesn't inspire me with the confidence that they're telling good stories.
Remember this presentation? When Marvel joked around with us that they were making Captain America Serpent Society and it ended up being the announcement for Civil War? It shows a distinct difference between DC and Marvel's approach. This announcement meant something because it gave us a picture of what the larger narrative is going to be like. Fans knew what Civil War was, they knew what Ragnarok was, and they knew what Infinity War was. Now, I know for a fact that none of those movies followed the source material to the point where you could get a copy of the Civil War comics and know what the plot of that movie was. But at least they confirmed to fans that they knew what they were doing and they cared about the stories that fans have been caring about for years.
And the sad thing is, DC had a moment where they followed in Marvel's footsteps in a good way.
Remember when Harry Lennix got on stage during Comic-Con in 2013 and he read the passage from the Dark Knight Returns and they said that that was going to be the inspiration for the next movie? That got people really excited! It was awesome! It didn't matter that the movie was not going to follow the narrative of that particular comic, it got people excited.
What comic was Suicide Squad based on? I mean what specific narrative? Was there a specific narrative that Justice League was built off of? I'm not saying that that is necessary because it's not. But something Marvel has done really well is have the stories driven by the creators or fans of these comics. It gave us at least a hint at what was to come and gave people the opportunity to speculate on what could happen.
But right now the whole cinematic universe seems aimless. Maybe this is because they're regrouping to come back with some awesome future plans to revive the franchise, maybe they're just rebooting and waiting for a time that isn't going to undercut the upcoming movies to announce it, or maybe they're just going to make whatever movie comes to mind and say be damned to all kind of continuity. This has been a constant with DC, where they don't seem to have a clear direction. And without that clear direction people don't get excited, it just makes us angry.
But whether or not they're rebooting or not, the whole cinematic universe seems aimless. There are like 3-5 Joker movies coming out and while they've trashed some of the random movie ideas that never really had any traction to begin with (Batgirl), there doesn't seem to be a deliberate direction with the franchise anywhere in sight. All I see is the studio continuing to throw everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, it just they've seen what sticks but it doesn't really have the connective tissue that is expected of a large franchise like this. And none of those ideas that have "stuck" don't seem to be connected to what was alluded to in previous movies.
None of those ideas seem to be anywhere in production and it makes you just wonder what the point of the last few movies have been if we're just going to focus on a Suicide Squad that might be a soft reboot with totally new characters.
It's clear that DC thought that what they were working with wasn't working and that's why there is serious doubt that we'll see any of those seeds followed through with in any future movie, and while it's sometimes good to not know where a franchise is going, DC just doesn't inspire me with the confidence that they're telling good stories.
And the sad thing is, DC had a moment where they followed in Marvel's footsteps in a good way.
What comic was Suicide Squad based on? I mean what specific narrative? Was there a specific narrative that Justice League was built off of? I'm not saying that that is necessary because it's not. But something Marvel has done really well is have the stories driven by the creators or fans of these comics. It gave us at least a hint at what was to come and gave people the opportunity to speculate on what could happen.
But right now the whole cinematic universe seems aimless. Maybe this is because they're regrouping to come back with some awesome future plans to revive the franchise, maybe they're just rebooting and waiting for a time that isn't going to undercut the upcoming movies to announce it, or maybe they're just going to make whatever movie comes to mind and say be damned to all kind of continuity. This has been a constant with DC, where they don't seem to have a clear direction. And without that clear direction people don't get excited, it just makes us angry.
3. Cast departures and throwing out the things that worked does not build enthusiasm.
Imagine a world where both Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr left their roles as Captain America and Iron Man after the first Avengers movie. I imagine the franchise would still continue and you could still make a successful franchise, but there would be a big hole left in the franchise that I don't think a character we've only seen on television could fill. Imagine if they dropped Captian America because they were going to bring Jessica Jones in and focus more on her. You'd be confused and a little skeptical that Marvel was heading in the right direction.
Now officially, Affleck and Cavill have not said that they aren't going to be in any future DC movie moving forward but there have been plenty of reports making me believe that the two are moving onto bigger and better things and to me that is a shame.
These two essentially started this universe and how do you continue a franchise when those two main characters who started it are not going to have a place in that future?
Am I interested in a Supergirl movie? Yes, I actually would really like that. I enjoyed episodes of the CW show and I wouldn't mind seeing it on the big screen but I think, especially in the case of Superman, that relationship could be something really great to be explore.
But what's more is that both these actors are very talented people. Ben Affleck is an Oscar award winning writer and director, Henry Cavill is a big name from a lot of movies but more recently his role in Mission Impossible Fallout. Furthermore, they are actually the good parts of this franchise but they've been horribly written.
Yes, Batman v Superman was hot garbage but countless times over people have said that they want to see the smiley and optimistic Superman we caught a glimpse of at the end of Justice League. An old grizzled Batman is one that we haven't seen before and there are a lot of stories you could do with that in single movies. Why would you let these two go?
To be fair, some of this might be negotiations that are out of Warner Brother and DC's control. But it's hard to get excited about a franchise that seems to be drifting and not recognizing the clear potential of people like these two guys.
So what's the overall on DC right now for me? I don't know.
There's a lot of good things that DC has lined up. But then again that's all based on speculation. They have the talent and the direction that could lead to really great movies and a unique take on a genre that has been going on for a while, but some of that talent is leaving and there is still a sense of studio control in a lot of these films.
At the moment, the best thing happening to DC is this Fox/Disney buyout deal. The X-men movies are being given trailers but then are pushed back, giving the impression that that is a sinking ship and the only profitable thing is Deadpool.
For a brief moment, DC doesn't look like they're the studio that has the least clue what they're doing with their superhero franchises. But this will not last long.
I imagine I will probably do a follow up to this once Aquaman and Shazam have come out but with the way things have been going, I would imagine that the environment could be 100% different by that point so we will see. I hope you enjoyed this somewhat coherent rant and if you have your own thoughts please send me my way either in the comments or on Twitter. My Twitter handle is @MovieSymposium and I love feedback and continuing the conversation. If you follow me on Twitter, you can get updates on future movie news and reviews coming out of this blog.
Thanks for Reading
Imagine a world where both Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr left their roles as Captain America and Iron Man after the first Avengers movie. I imagine the franchise would still continue and you could still make a successful franchise, but there would be a big hole left in the franchise that I don't think a character we've only seen on television could fill. Imagine if they dropped Captian America because they were going to bring Jessica Jones in and focus more on her. You'd be confused and a little skeptical that Marvel was heading in the right direction.
These two essentially started this universe and how do you continue a franchise when those two main characters who started it are not going to have a place in that future?
Am I interested in a Supergirl movie? Yes, I actually would really like that. I enjoyed episodes of the CW show and I wouldn't mind seeing it on the big screen but I think, especially in the case of Superman, that relationship could be something really great to be explore.
But what's more is that both these actors are very talented people. Ben Affleck is an Oscar award winning writer and director, Henry Cavill is a big name from a lot of movies but more recently his role in Mission Impossible Fallout. Furthermore, they are actually the good parts of this franchise but they've been horribly written.
To be fair, some of this might be negotiations that are out of Warner Brother and DC's control. But it's hard to get excited about a franchise that seems to be drifting and not recognizing the clear potential of people like these two guys.
So what's the overall on DC right now for me? I don't know.
There's a lot of good things that DC has lined up. But then again that's all based on speculation. They have the talent and the direction that could lead to really great movies and a unique take on a genre that has been going on for a while, but some of that talent is leaving and there is still a sense of studio control in a lot of these films.
For a brief moment, DC doesn't look like they're the studio that has the least clue what they're doing with their superhero franchises. But this will not last long.
I imagine I will probably do a follow up to this once Aquaman and Shazam have come out but with the way things have been going, I would imagine that the environment could be 100% different by that point so we will see. I hope you enjoyed this somewhat coherent rant and if you have your own thoughts please send me my way either in the comments or on Twitter. My Twitter handle is @MovieSymposium and I love feedback and continuing the conversation. If you follow me on Twitter, you can get updates on future movie news and reviews coming out of this blog.
Thanks for Reading
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